The Power of Play

It’s our very last episode for this season of Overtime! Before riding off into 2021, let’s take a look at some of the predicted design trends for next year. Then, we’ll talk about the pros and cons of being a niche vs. generalist designer to help you figure out which path is right for you. Plus, get inspired to make time to create just for the simple joy of it. We’re talking all about how creative play can unearth some of your most meaningful work yet. Let’s go!

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• Taylor Lee Nicholson

Transcript

Meg: Yay, hi buddy, welcome back to Overtime. I’m your host Meg “Closing Time” Lewis. Guess what? This episode, this very episode, is my very last episode hosting Overtime for this 2020 season, and I’m ending it with a big old bang, a bangity bing bong if you will. If this is your first time listening to Overtime, hi and bye, but welcome! This is Dribbble’s weekly podcast where I give you design news and some tips to create your very best work. This week on Overtime, I comb through the various 2021 design trend predictions and see which ones I actually agree with. Plus, my thoughts on finding a niche versus being a generalist and how to actually find your niche when it can be so overwhelming. And using any time off you can get as an excuse to creatively play and how it can seem extremely luxurious. Not important, but it can lead to something massive and career and life altering and breakthroughs galore. Let’s go!

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It’s time to talk design trends. Okay, so I did the extremely challenging work of googling 2021 design trends and then clicking on so many links and finding what I thought were the best collections of design trend predictions for 2021. We did this at the beginning of the year this year to see what the trend predictions were for 2020, and it’s very interesting to see which ones were came true and which ones didn’t given the unpredictability of this year, and I’m noticing some repeat trends surfacing for 2021 in the prediction. So, Creative Block actually linked to one that I thought was the best. It’s from a group called Coastal Creative, which I don’t know what they do, but I probably should click around to find out. Vehicle wraps and large format signage, it doesn’t seem like they’re at the forefront of predicting design trends, but honestly, they have a list that I think is actually the most accurate and I don’t know who put this together on their team, but they did a great job.

Anyway, so after looking at so many different sources for 2021 design trend predictions, I found this one to be the most interesting and most accurate, personally, from a graphic design perspective. So, this one, they say things like responsive clutter is what they’re calling it, which is totally accurate I think, [is] kind of like collage-based layouts where images are happening, text is happening over the image behind the image. We’ve seen this a lot in the past, but I think now I’ve noticed that it’s happening more with bigger brands, which is huge for a trend landscape in forecasting, which means that if bigger brands are doing it, that means that everybody else is going to start doing it because more people have eyes on those. So, I think that’s definitely probably happening already.

And their next design trend prediction I totally agree with, [is] surrealist still lifes. Yes. So, I don’t know if you can understand what this means by me just saying surrealist still lifes, but still lifes, I’ve noticed, are very popular right now. Art directed still life shoots; we remember that time in sort of bland product photography where it would just be like a hand coming out of a hole with like a pink backdrop [and the] hand would be holding the product. That was a huge trend maybe in the last two years. And now with product photography, we’re getting into the still life category, where in addition to the hand coming out of the hole, there’s all kinds of other things like chattering teeth, now all I can think of is teeth references. I was about to say dentures. Also, tooth impressions and Chiclets… Tic Tacs. Anyway, wow. So, in addition to the hand coming out of the pink hole, you get all kinds of other weird still life objects in there alongside the product.

They have what they’re calling outsized typography, which is a really interesting term. I think, in their words, it just means that the type is so big that it’s going off of the screen of the website or off of the dye line or the cut of the printed piece, so that it’s just so big, it can’t even fit. And I think I do agree with that one as well. I’ve been seeing that more and more. I’ve even been using it a little bit. They have one that’s like earth and metal, which I’m not really sure if I completely understand the use case of that. They give some product examples, but it’s like a Land Rover ad, so I don’t know.

Moving on past that one, in-text photography, which what this means, and I have seen this one a lot lately, which I don’t know if that means it’s a 2020 trend or if it’s 2021 trend, let’s find out, but it’s whenever you have the giant hero headline on a website, and then there’s images of the projects or of the product or the work in between the words in that giant headline text. Can you envision that? That’s what they mean by in-text photography. And then they also go into disharmonious color combinations, which we had as a 2020 design prediction trend, I remember. I definitely saw it happening a lot in 2020 and I think it probably will happen more in 2021, as well.

Then Creative Boom has a list of 2021 predictions when it comes to web design specifically. And they have one that I thought was really interesting. And it’s more design activism, which was totally a 2020 trend that I don’t think we saw coming because we didn’t see all of the reasons to become activists coming this year. And it’s really become mainstream for designers to become activists this year and Creative Boom thinks there will be more of that happening in 2021. They also have this prediction of web becoming happier and healthier, which they say means designers are prioritizing health care and mental health, and I agree with that. I think in 2020, we’ve really understood, and it’s reminded us of the importance of health care and why and how we need to prioritize mental health specifically. And so, they see that as an opportunity for us to really push that forward in 2021, mmm.

They also predict that hope is going to become a huge thing in 2021, and I definitely agree as well, because, you know, we saw a lot of messaging in 2020 about unprecedented times. Oh, we know all the messaging that happened from brands in 2020, so I think that [in] 2021, [they’ll] all kind of collectively shift to this message of hope, which, I’m ready. I’m ready to feel hopeful, my goodness. So yes, optimistic visuals when it comes to hope will probably happen as well.

Now, when we’re looking specifically, when it comes to environmental or interior design trends, I want to touch on that a little bit. I know most of us are digital designers or print designers or graphic designers in general, but I find interior design to be fascinating. I like to know what’s happening on a trend landscape basis, specifically with interiors. And so, Architectural Digest has this list of predictions for 2021 and it bummed me out, I will not lie. I guess it bums me out the most because it just doesn’t overlap with my style and my taste at all, so that means greatly that I will maybe not be able to find stuff in the coming year that’s my style, and it’s actually quite different than I was imagining 2021 trends with interiors panning out. So, they have nature inspired patterns. The images they show look kind of like a Pier One or Tommy Bahama vibe. Warm colors and earth tones, so, okay, I mean, they immediately show an image of a cobalt blue bottle, which is not a warm color, but it is an earth tone, I suppose. The ocean is blue. Then a Turkish rug and Emerald vase. And then they go on to say that the 70’s is going to be huge trend prediction for 2021, which makes sense to me because we saw that with graphic design in 2020. We saw a lot of 70’s inspired color palettes, typography, design, oh my gosh, we saw the 70’s everywhere this year. I definitely did, especially on Instagram and on Pinterest. I will say we saw that a lot. They think it’s coming into interiors, which I find to be fascinating as well. And let’s see, they have artisanal furniture.

So, those are the trends they’re predicting, and what I was predicting for 2021, and maybe I was just predicting what I wanted to be true because I feel like a lot of times, I’m looking for a specific kind of furniture and nobody has it. And I just search and search and search for days and days and hours and hours, and it doesn’t exist yet. And then I have to wait a couple years, and then eventually it will exist. I’m not saying I’m ahead of trends or I’m predicting the future, but a lot of times, you know what? I just feel like I’m searching for something and then eventually somebody makes it. So maybe that will happen.

Now, what I’m currently searching for that I was hoping would be a 2021 trend is chunky stuff. I really want some dining chairs that are just big and chunky, and they look kind of like a stuffed animal, maybe [that’s] what I’m envisioning. They are very sculptural, very curvy. I guess I just want to sit on a blob, but it’s a dining chair. I hope that exists. If you know of this chair, please send it to me. I guess it’s good that I’m saying it out loud so that maybe somebody will point me in the right direction. So, I was really hoping that big, chunky sculptural pieces were going to continue to be a trend in 2021. We saw it a little bit with independent makers and brands that make furniture in 2020, but I don’t know if it caught on. I wish it did. I hope it did, because I want it to be more of a thing. Blobby stuff, we know there was a blob trend, but it was more like surface pattern that was happening and less like the actual sculptural furniture pieces. I think maybe they were just too weird. Maybe they were too weird. Okay, that’s fine. I’m talking myself out of it as an actual trend. Now, let’s move on.

Meg: Now, when we talk design trend predictions, I feel like I absolutely have to talk about the dangers of design trends in general. And this is one of the hills that I will die on, so I’ve probably mentioned this so many times. But the danger of design trends, and the danger of being in an industry that’s constantly catering to trends, is that we all end up getting inspired by the same designs, the same trends, right? We’re all on the same page, we’re all ingesting the same visual information, so we end up, as designers and creatives, all making work that looks very similar, because what else? We’re all being culturally and unknowingly influenced at the same time. That’s just how trends work. So as designers, we perpetuate the trends, and we’re also a little bit in charge of how much power the trends do have. And there’s not a huge, massive problem with catering to trends, but I think when it comes to our own personal fulfillment in our work and the work that we make, I’ve personally found it to be very dissatisfying to constantly have to reinvent my style and reinvent myself to keep up with trends. And I think we know this with the way that we decorate our spaces, we know this with the work that we make, it feels out of touch, eventually, and then we feel like we’re irrelevant, and we need to reinvent ourselves again. And that’s not your fault, that’s trends’ fault. Our good old buddy trends, how rude of it, it’s all its fault.

So, within that, I think the question that everybody wants to ask themselves is: “If I’m not designing to trends, what am I doing? How do I define that style? How do I figure out what my thing is if it’s not just designing what I feel like designing in the moment that may or may not have to do with trends?” So, I think there is a question all the time in the design industry, and maybe in other industries, I’d be curious to know, of this idea of a generalist versus a specialist. And when I put out a call the other day on my Instagram of what topics you all want me to discuss, I got overwhelming responses for this topic of how to find your niche if you want to be a specialist, and people asking, “Do I need to be a specialist? Or can I just be a generalist?” And oh my gosh, I am not the person to get the definitive answer on this topic from, but I do have a perspective and some thoughts that I feel really strongly about when it comes to this, and I highly, highly encourage you to seek out other opinions and perspectives from other people that have very strong opinions on this topic as well, so that you can get a more well-rounded view, because Meg Lewis’ perspective is limited to say the least, all of our perspectives are.

Anyway so, generalist versus specialist. I myself, when it comes to design, I am a generalist, meaning I will design a product, I will design a mural, I will paint the mural, I will do any kind of design, print, digital experiential that you need. I’m a generalist in that way. But I’m a specialist in the very specific style I have. I’m a specialist, kind of, in values. I specialize in a very specific looking design style that, you know, brands, usually only one, if they want their audience to feel a certain type of way. So, that is my specialty, the style that I work within, which comes from my brain. So really, I think for me, I think my specialty is my brain technically. But there are so many different types of specialties. When I started out in my career, I became a value-based specialist. So, that just meant that I would do any kind of design that a brand needed, but I worked specifically for a type of company that shared my values, I still kind of do today. But at the time, I’ve sold out a little bit, at the time, I was only working with companies that were working to make the world a healthier, happier place. And I still do that. But I also work for larger corporations sometimes that are working on projects that do help make the world a healthier, happier place. So, the lines have blurred to say the least with the value-based design. But that is a kind of specialty that you could have.

What types of company you work for; so, if you want to be a designer that specializes in branding for underwear companies, that’s a specialty and you can rock the heck out of that. And I think the benefit of having a specialty, having a thing that you specialize in, is that it helps separate you from every other designer, right? I will say there is plenty of room for all of us to succeed and thrive, but it’s a lot easier to succeed and thrive if you kind of carve out your own little area and own little paradise for yourself.

So, there are other kinds of specialties, like skill-based specialties, so if you’re just really good at hand lettering and that’s your specialty, hand lettering, then heck yes, go for it. If you’re really good at packaging design, and want to be a package designer, great, beautiful, I’m proud of you. Good job. Those are skill-based specialties to me. Now, there’s personality-based specialties, which is kind of what I’m in the industry of, of being this person that has a personality, oh my gosh, everybody does, where brands hire you or me or whoever to create things with your personality using your likeness, right?

Okay, so there [are] lots of types of specialties, lots of niches, and you can combine one or more of these to create your specialty. You could be a packaging designer that designs packaging for sustainable underwear brands. That is a niche if I’ve ever heard of one. And I will say, from personal experience, one of the beautiful parts about doing this and becoming a specialist is that if you carve out a very specific area for yourself, and you market yourself as doing that, then you will attract that kind of brand that you want to work for, but also you’ll become kind of the only person that’s doing that work for that brand. And I know the critique here is if you specialize too initially, will you then scare off everybody else? The answer is yes. 100% you will, you’re going to scare off everybody else besides sustainable underwear companies. But then you will attract the heck out of those sustainable underwear companies, because what happens is, they’re looking for a designer and they have 20 tabs open with 20 different designers and they’re clicking through and they’re just like, “Okay, okay, okay.” And then they get to you and you are the only one that is speaking directly to them. So, you automatically, automagically, are going to have a little upper hand, a tiny little hand that’s held up so high.

Now, I think [a question] a lot of people [have], I have asked myself this in the past, is: “What if I pick a specialty and I don’t like it? Or, I just get worn out after a little bit of time. If I pick one very specific thing, am I going to get burnout faster? And am I going to question everything? What do I do? Am I going to get stuck?” The answer is yes and no. The more you specialize, the more you have to do the same task over and over again repetitively, the easier it becomes to get burnout. Yes, we know this. But also, you can change your mind. You can change specialties. It is not that big of a deal to change your mind, to change specialties, to try out one niche, see how it feels, see how it’s going, do that for a while, and if you don’t like it, naturally ebb and flow to the next thing, or be dramatic about it and have a huge announcement that says, “Now, I’m designing bra brands – sustainable bras.” I don’t know, I said underwear. I was talking bottoms only before. Now I’m talking tops. I cannot oversell how important it is to you to think of this as a light casual thing.

So, try something. Try a specialty out, try a niche out. If you’re looking for it, try it out for a little while. What I’ve done for myself in the past, whenever I tried out a niche, is I said, “Okay, I’m going to do this for a month. I’m going to fight really hard for this specialty and go 100% at it, tell everybody about it, and if after a month I’m not loving it – a month is a short amount of time – if after a month, I’m not loving it, it’s not going the way I had envisioned, it’s not feeling right, then I’ll switch to something else.” Be okay giving yourself a test amount of time to see if you like it, to see if it feels right to you, and if it doesn’t, change. Change to something else. You are not going to scare everybody off by flip flopping and changing directions. It seems really dramatic in your head, I know it seems like a really big deal, but not everybody else is paying attention to you as much as you’re paying attention to yourself. And it seems like this huge thing to you, but not to everybody else, I promise.

And from a marketing and positioning perspective, it’s also really great to have a specialty because having a thing helps you to be placeable in people’s brains. Like, if you only do one kind of design, or one thing for one person, it helps people to understand you more. I’m not a huge fan of that, like I’m not a skill-based specialist, so I’m not just going to all of a sudden become, you know, a sustainable bra brand designer, and you go on my Instagram and it’s just a bunch of bra images and design images that have illustrations of bras and whatever somebody else in that position might have to do, which is easier for people to place. But I can’t do that because I’d get burnt out too fast on bras, so rather, what I am is I’m kind of this value, personality-based, style-based designer. And within that, I go 100% for those things, for buckling down, doubling down, pootling down on my specialty, so whenever you do go to my website, my social media accounts, you’re like, “Oh, there she is doing her thing,” and it’s easier for people to place me. If you’re too much all over the place, it gets a little wishy washy and confusing, which is a problem I deal with a lot because I do a lot of different things.

Okay, so if you’re trying to figure out how to find your niche, I would first look towards the areas of your career that are most fulfilling, most fun for you. So, looking back, if you’re a freelancer, like me, and you’ve had certain client relationships that just went really well, certain projects that you loved more than others, ask yourself what it was about those projects. Was it the industry you were working with? Was it the type of product or the type of person you were working with? Was it the actual skill that you were being able to do? [Was it] that type of design you were able to do? Was it because you felt safe enough to be yourself? What was it about that? And ask yourself those questions, write those things down, and maybe that will help you to pick out what your specialty is, because we want you to have a career where you feel fulfilled, right? Of course, we do. Yeah.

Meg: Well, well, well, whether or not you’ve subscribed to a lifestyle that lends yourself a break during this time of the year, or, you know, if you’re feeling burnout, which a lot of us are, as we know, or a lot of us get vacation or holiday time built into our work benefits and because of COVID, we can’t travel, so we’re just looking for something to do with ourselves while we take some time off. If you have the privilege and the ability to have some time off, I think that it is a great idea for you to take some time off and do some creative play. Creative brains are frustrating, I will tell you it is so frustrating trying to navigate creativity. And when you’re feeling the most creative, how to make yourself all of a sudden be creative, it’s not a magic switch we can just flip on and off all of a sudden to feel our most creative selves to make the best work. And it can be very frustrating and cause yourself to ask so many questions about, “Why is this happening? Why me? Why now? Am I irrelevant? Help me, world.” Those are all the questions I normally ask myself.

So, you are a fascinating person. You are changing, you are growing, you are evolving constantly, so what you might want to work on also is going to be changing and growing and evolving. So, if three years ago, you got really into knitting scarves and you made a whole business out of it, it’s like your side project, it’s a big deal to you, and over time, a lot of stuff has happened to you, especially this year, you’ve fallen out of love with knitting scarves, that’s fine. You are changing, growing, evolving, and what you might want to work on or what you find to be the most creatively inspiring, that might change and grow and evolve too and that’s okay. So, somebody that I want to talk about, which I think is a great example of this, is an artist named Taylor Lee Nicholson. So, Taylor, I’ve been working with Taylor for a while, just as an admirer of her work, she’s a beautiful painter and fine artist. And she and I have worked together over the last at least year now to help her to figure out what’s most fulfilling to her and how to position herself kind of away from the painterly style that she had into something that felt more fulfilling and creatively energizing for her. And when Taylor and I first started working together, I found that, like all of us, myself included, Taylor was in her head a lot thinking about what was right and what she should be doing. And I really just wanted Taylor to have a time away from her own thoughts and to just have fun and play creatively and not have goals, not think of what the outcome was going to look like, just do this dang stuff and have some fun and play around with things. No goals, no objectives.

And if you look at Taylor’s work today, you will see a completely different artist. You will see somebody who’s clearly living their truest self life, making work that is so unique to her, so unlike anything that anybody else can do, and it is beautiful. And a lot of it came during some absolutely massive epiphanies she had while she was just having fun and playing.

So, I think part of the challenge of this prompt is to get out of your own dang head because we all have so many insecurities while we’re making creative work. We compare ourselves to other creatives, other artists constantly: “Is this as good as theirs? Why can they make it so much better than me? Am I relevant? Is this different enough? Does this look too similar to somebody else’s work?” Oh, my gosh, these are all the things I ask myself constantly and I know you do, too. We all do, we’re human. So, the first thing that you need to do during this creative play, break, or vacation, or sabbatical, or whatever you want to call it is to remove yourself from insecurities. So, if you need to have a few days away from your phone, or at least set some boundaries for yourself where you’re not comparing yourself to others, you’re not feeling jealous of other people, you’re not on Pinterest, you’re not looking at trend based information, you cut out that toxic relative that’s always judging you for two weeks or however long it is, I just need you to have a break from your insecurities so that you can get to a place or you feel connected to yourself.

So, that means give yourself a little pep talk. Remind yourself that you are absolutely incredible, and you are unlike anybody else that exists, and you have so much to offer this world. You have so many different things that you can make and do and give to the world that nobody else can, and you are capable of making incredible things for this world and making the world a better place. Yes, and you deserve to have a life and a career where you get to do that, right? So, get to a place where you can give yourself that little pep talk and remind yourself of why you’re amazing and awesome and really a great person and a total catch, because it’s true. So, get to a place where you’re feeling some love, you’re able to celebrate yourself, remove yourself from those insecurities, stop comparing yourself to other creatives, and just have fun, try new things, and make things.

So, it could be making things in different mediums that you’ve never tried before, it could just be decorating cookies for a few days, it could be painting some pottery, it could be stained glass, it could be illustration or painting or another form of fine art, [it] could be something that you’ve just been feeling like, “I don’t know if I can do that very well,” your whole career, this can be your opportunity to just play around and try it out. And the key thing here is that you need to not worry about how long something takes you, because I think we’re trained throughout our lives to think this way where we’re like, “Okay, by 4pm, I need to have these things done.” And if you get to 4pm and you don’t have those things done, then you start feeling bad about yourself and you maybe make yourself feel terrible about that thing. You guilt yourself a little bit. You’re not very nice to you. And by you, I mean me. That’s me, I’m talking about myself. So, you have to get to a place where your intention for the day is to just play. It doesn’t matter where you get by the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how far you make it [or] any progress, your intention is to just have fun and play around.

We talked a few episodes ago about being a kid and what it felt like to just make stuff without any obligation to having a specific outcome of like, not having a vision of where you want it to look like at the end, you’re just messing around, it doesn’t matter how much time is flying by. We want you to get there. Absolutely. So, it can be frustrating, but not if you go in allowing it to take as long as it takes and just be okay with wherever you end up at the end of the day. So, set the intention that you’re just going to do that for the day, only that, you’re just going to have some fun and play around.

And the end goal of doing this creative play stuff isn’t anything either. Your goal doesn’t have to be to have some sort of grand epiphany, your goal is to just play creatively, learn some new stuff about yourself along the way, if it happens to come to you, okay. Truly, there are no goals here, because I find whenever you let yourself go and get connected to yourself and what makes you amazing, and give yourself those pep talks throughout the day, remind yourself that you are amazing and that this world deserves to have you because you can make things for the world that nobody else can and just, oh, whoo, you’re impeccable, that’s when I have found, for myself and for others, working with others, that that is when the epiphanies happen. Just let yourself be, no intentions for any kind of outcome, just have fun. Do whatever your brain wants to do in the moment that is the most fun to you at the time. Follow that intuition.

So, once you’re done with your little break, whether you have a free day or you have a long weekend or you end up with a whole week off, doesn’t matter. After you’re done, I think the tricky part is to culminate what you’ve learned about yourself. You probably, throughout that creative play, found a lot of stuff you didn’t enjoy doing, you found a lot of stuff that maybe you did surprisingly end up enjoying, maybe you found out a lot of information about yourself, maybe you discovered so much about who you really are. And maybe during these play sessions with yourself, you had a lot of alone time with your thoughts and you came up with some amazing epiphanies along the way. So, what I encourage you to do after your creative play session is take that information and figure out how you can now give it back to the world. Is there a way that you can provide the world, show the world this creative stuff that you’ve just made, the stuff that you found out about your brain? How can you show it to the world, make it for the world, give it to the world to make the world a better place? And how can you do it uniquely to you?

So, you know, even if I was doing a paint by numbers for a whole day and I just came out at the end of the paint by numbers making the exact landscape painting that I wanted to make, [I’d ask] myself, “What did I enjoy about that?” I really, really love painting. I love painting; I didn’t realize that I would. And then I have to ask myself when it’s over, “How can I offer this to the world? How can I make something like this to the world that’s unique to me, that’s been done in a way that only I can do?” So then, you get to mix painting with your other skills, with your personality, with all the things that interests you that make you who you are. Maybe you’re somebody who likes photography, and painting, and you’re also a designer. How can you blend all those things together now and do them in a way where you smush them all together and offer it to the world? Because if you smush them all together, you’re going to make something that nobody else can, because it’s a bunch of things unique to you that you smush together.

And then secondarily, the next question to ask yourself is, “How can I make it make money?” I just got really close to the microphone, because it’s very hard to say. “How can I make it make money?” That’s the thing about creative play: when you’re done, you can be strategic as heck about it. And I think that sometimes people are like, “You don’t need to make every fun aspect of your life profitable.” But if you’ve been self-employed for as long as I have, you’ve got to get real creative about how you make your money. And I think there’s nothing wrong with making money from the things that bring you the most joy and fulfillment and fun. So, if you find something that you enjoy doing during your creative sabbatical that’s so fulfilling to you that you can offer to the world and you can make it for the world and you can do it in a way that nobody else can, yes, you should be able to make money off of that if you want to, especially if you need the money to survive. Do not feel guilty about that, ever. And a lot of us, I know, feel guilty about making money off of things that we do that we enjoy in the first place. So, you’ve got to get past that if that’s a hold up for you, because you deserve to make money off of the things that bring you the most fulfillment and joy. Yes, of course you do.

Okay, so this is your excuse to, if you have time off right now, if you have a weekend day, if you have a day or half a day, a long weekend, a whole week to spare, to let go of your insecurities, ditch those, smush them to the side, and just have some fun and play and take a break doing what’s fun and creatively inspiring to you without the idea of a specific outcome. And whenever you come out of it, then you can look back and see if you’ve learned anything along the way. It’s so enlightening and so exciting, and we all deserve to have those little breakthroughs. So, go out there, have some fun, get creative, do some playing. Ooh, it’s going to be great, and I believe in you and you can do it. You can make things for the world that nobody else can.

Meg: Wow, buddy, that’s it for this 2020 season of Overtime. We did it. You did a great job, and I did okay. It has been an absolute pleasure. It’s been the best hosting this podcast for you this year, and oh, what a wild year it’s been, right? We have learned a lot, we’ve grown a lot, and it’s been so fun allowing you to come along with me on this journey. So, if you’d like to make sure you hear my voice more often, head to my own dang website at meglewis.com or follow me on all the websites where you get to take a look inside of my life, my eating habits, behind the scenes work stuff, and a lot of photos. Honestly a lot of photos of my face shot from sort of a low angle. My handle is @yourbuddymeg. But you are the best. I love you so much. This has been the best. Goodbye. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye!